Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker (Rants & spoilers)

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Re: Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker (Rants & spoilers)

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Post by Ace Antilles » Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:16 pm

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Post by Mako » Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:54 pm

And ace brings the beer.
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Post by GavUK » Thu Apr 23, 2020 6:05 pm

Ace Antilles wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:16 pm
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Of all the beers in all the cantinas on Tattooine... you had to walk in with that one. :P

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Post by Rich C » Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:48 pm

Jaeven wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 2:10 am
It does have the honor of having the worst line all of Star Wars, namely "Somehow Palpatine returned."
Really, though?

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Post by Vince T » Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:16 pm

I'm with Rich C on this one. Though "Are you an Angel ..." holds a close second...

Hmm coming to think of it, the prequels were a treasure trove of bad quotes.
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Post by Marcos_Edson » Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:51 pm

Ace Antilles wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:16 pm
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I remember something called orangine, back in the day, there was even a battle revolving around it... :D
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Post by Vince T » Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:02 pm

Wasn't that some sort of Lemonade?

At least I knew something by the name "Orangina" and the bottle was shaped like a lemon.
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Post by Jaeven » Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:50 pm

Rich C wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:48 pm
Jaeven wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 2:10 am
It does have the honor of having the worst line all of Star Wars, namely "Somehow Palpatine returned."
Really, though?

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Yeah, but that's bad dialogue that at least has some logical background in that Anakin would naturally hate send.

"Somehow Palpatine returned," is just utter and complete laziness. It's basically telling the audience, "idk, we don't know how Palpatine survived, you figure it out yourself."

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Post by Rich C » Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:36 am

General_Trageton wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:16 pm
"Are you an Angel ..."
Didn't we all say stupid shit at that age, though?
In fact, I'm willing to bet that if Natalie Portman had walked into your room when you were a kid, you'd have had some dialogue problems, too. :D
Jaeven wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:50 pm
"...figure it out yourself."


Welcome to J.J.'s world of filmmaking, where you just tease and tease and tease, until finally... "Surprise! It's nothing! We never thought that far ahead, sorry!" Add that to a trilogy and you're gonna have a bad time, particularly in the finalé.

He's done this pretty much consistently for well over a decade, now, so it shouldn't really be much of a surprise.
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Post by Vince T » Fri Apr 24, 2020 6:19 am

Rich C wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:36 am
General_Trageton wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:16 pm
"Are you an Angel ..."
Didn't we all say stupid shit at that age, though?
In fact, I'm willing to bet that if Natalie Portman had walked into your room when you were a kid, you'd have had some dialogue problems, too. :D
Unlikely, she's just a year older than me. At the age of 9 my focus wasn't about girls just yet :D
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Post by Rich C » Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:57 am

But it's actually Natalie Portman from the Chinese dub, and she didn't bring her subtitles... :D

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Post by Vince T » Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:46 am

I have no clue what you‘re going on about but it sounds ... unsettling O.o
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Post by Mako » Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:03 am

Ok truth be told J.J can't take the entire blame for this crapola. The credit goes to every one from Kathlene Kennedy on down. The script and story writers, the producers and so on. Can't blame the actors though they can only work with what they are given.
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Post by GavUK » Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:47 pm

Mako wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:03 am
Ok truth be told J.J can't take the entire blame for this crapola. The credit goes to every one from Kathlene Kennedy on down. The script and story writers, the producers and so on. Can't blame the actors though they can only work with what they are given.
But if that was the case... then explain Rogue one and Solo... both that had zero input from JJ Abrahms and both of which were excellent films... I rate Rogue one as the 3rd best SW film ever made... and Solo is better than all of the prequels and sequels.

He is one of the worst directors around, and is still being given massive franchises to shit over... and continues to do so because no matter how shitty the films are... they still make a profit... maybe not as much at the box office, but combined with toy/collectable sales... it's basically printing money at this point. The could wipe shit on a script and just film that for 2hrs as some one wipes fresh shit on each page as it's turned... and people would still line up to watch it.

Disney are slowly... starting to realise that dumping all of the previous canon was a mistake... and are desperately trying to cherry pick parts of it to incorporate back into their version of the SWU.

Solo was meant to be a new trilogy... and I still want to see that happen... the mistake they made was releasing it in the summer instead of December as with all of the others.

I still think the best thing for the whole SWU right now is a Vader trilogy.. set over the course of those 18yrs between eps 3-4... How he hunted down the remaining jedi, how they tightened their grip on the galaxy... how they met Thrawn... and once that's done... jump forward to a few yrs after RotJ and do something based around the Heir to the Empire trilogy of books which kicked of the whole SWU 3yrs ago... I think Timothy Zahn has written more SW books than any other writer and deserves to have one of them turned into a decent script.

Oh and bring back Gareth Edwards who did Rogue One to do the Vader trilogy... he captured Vader perfectly in that movie... and we've not got that much longer to make use of James Earl Jones... although these days they can just fake his voice like everything else.

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Post by Mako » Wed Apr 29, 2020 12:26 am

I didn't say he couldn't be blamed I said he couldn't take all of it. Remember the writing and script teams that handled Solo and Rouge one were not the same ones that handled TLJ AND ROS. Your argument would otherwise hold water that the director is solely to blame, except one thing. George Lucas is a horrible director, and ANH should not have done well. But it did why? Because George had people go over his script and tell him "Hey this won't work, but this will." And he had people like that to help keep crap in line an make his movies work. also remember when he had other folks direct his stuff he stayed as advisor but was hands off for the most part. You can clearly tell that this wasn't done this time around.
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Post by Tuskin » Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:04 am

TLJ is a good movie though, TROS isn't.

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Post by GavUK » Wed Apr 29, 2020 2:45 pm

Mako wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 12:26 am
I didn't say he couldn't be blamed I said he couldn't take all of it. Remember the writing and script teams that handled Solo and Rouge one were not the same ones that handled TLJ AND ROS. Your argument would otherwise hold water that the director is solely to blame, except one thing. George Lucas is a horrible director, and ANH should not have done well. But it did why? Because George had people go over his script and tell him "Hey this won't work, but this will." And he had people like that to help keep crap in line an make his movies work. also remember when he had other folks direct his stuff he stayed as advisor but was hands off for the most part. You can clearly tell that this wasn't done this time around.
OK, I can agree with most of that.. It's obvious that JJ thinks he is the only one to make those decisions, kinda like GL did with the prequels... But you're just kinda reinforcing my point that the blame can be laid more at his feet than anyone else's.

I can tolerate TFA... it's a little better than TPM, but ROS and TLJ occupy the last two slots as the worst SW films ever made... The have nothing of any value what so ever aside from some pretty CGI and lighting... Remove Finn/Rose from TLJ entirely and it changes nothing about the film at all... an entire third of the film is worthless fluff... whilst the other two thirds is just useless fluff. :)

I just want to see good movies being made again... and two fifths of them haven't been so far. I want something that I loved so much as a little kid to recapture that again... but I don;t think that's possible any more... So long as people are saying those movies are 'good' there's no hope for the franchise.

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Post by Mako » Wed Apr 29, 2020 3:40 pm

TLJ was not a good movie. It was an alright popcorn flick. When put by itself with no prior context its a decent popcorn flick. Movie had way too many plot holes to be a good movie. You have the 18hr fuel limit with a pointless chase, the needless sacrifice of crappy bombers that any B-wing could have flown circles around just to take out a cruiser that was of no immediate threat cause it was going to blow up an abandoned base. The First Order's ability to automatically track and follow an escaping fleet through hyperspace. Rey's ability to somehow supremely break the laws of physics and some how leave the base right before the First order shows up, go train with Luke then get back to the chasing First Order within 18hrs, the whole pointless side trip to the casino planet. And the biggest one all of a sudden Luke Skywalker The man whole went through hell in a hand basket to save the greatest badguy in the freaking galaxy has a moment of weakness with his whiny pissant of a nephew and tries to kill him? Sorry those without any other context of being part of a greater story make for a popcorn flick not a good movie and sure as all crap not a good Star Wars movie
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Post by Jaeven » Wed Apr 29, 2020 3:42 pm

GavUK wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 2:45 pm
Mako wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 12:26 am
I didn't say he couldn't be blamed I said he couldn't take all of it. Remember the writing and script teams that handled Solo and Rouge one were not the same ones that handled TLJ AND ROS. Your argument would otherwise hold water that the director is solely to blame, except one thing. George Lucas is a horrible director, and ANH should not have done well. But it did why? Because George had people go over his script and tell him "Hey this won't work, but this will." And he had people like that to help keep crap in line an make his movies work. also remember when he had other folks direct his stuff he stayed as advisor but was hands off for the most part. You can clearly tell that this wasn't done this time around.
OK, I can agree with most of that.. It's obvious that JJ thinks he is the only one to make those decisions, kinda like GL did with the prequels... But you're just kinda reinforcing my point that the blame can be laid more at his feet than anyone else's.

I can tolerate TFA... it's a little better than TPM, but ROS and TLJ occupy the last two slots as the worst SW films ever made... The have nothing of any value what so ever aside from some pretty CGI and lighting... Remove Finn/Rose from TLJ entirely and it changes nothing about the film at all... an entire third of the film is worthless fluff... whilst the other two thirds is just useless fluff. :)

I just want to see good movies being made again... and two fifths of them haven't been so far. I want something that I loved so much as a little kid to recapture that again... but I don;t think that's possible any more... So long as people are saying those movies are 'good' there's no hope for the franchise.
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As for TLJ, it's not a good movie, it's a great one.

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Post by DarHan » Wed Apr 29, 2020 3:47 pm

I was about to write a response, but on second thought, haven’t we already spent the last two years and a half years having the same exact debate with the same exact arguments with no one managing to convince anyone?

(The only thing I’ll agree is that JJ is a fail-upwards hack who only ever does good things when he has someone keep a tight leash on him.)
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Post by Tuskin » Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:32 am

ESB,ANH,ROTJ,TLJ,TFA,TPM,ROTS,TROS,AOTC is my ranking on the numbered films at the moment.

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Post by GavUK » Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:19 pm

Jaeven wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 3:42 pm
As for TLJ, it's not a good movie, it's a great one.

Whatever image you posted doesn't show up... but as for that single line... I respect your right to have that opinion... but I also reserve the right to think that you can't be taken seriously any more. :)

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Post by Vince T » Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:36 pm

Oooof, here we go again....
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Post by Mako » Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:36 pm

Listen I respect the right for people to like what they like.Lord knows there are movies I like that everyone else thinks are crap. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind I just pointed out what it is about these movies that I don't like. Now if someone can explain to me what makes TLJ and TROS so great hey I'm all ears. I have no problem looking at these films with new eyes. The concept of the Jedi ending was awesome. The follow through on that sucked ass. Luke finding out that it was ok to fail was great, The fact that it took 30 plus years after ESB for him to figure that out? Really? Snoke being nothing more than a puppet and Kyo Ren could take him out and do his own thing with the First Order. Great! Kyo Ren then turning into a puppet fo Palpatine who just came out of left field and you needing to play Fortnight to get what the hell was going on? Crapola. The idea of the sith wayfinders and there being two of them to get to a secret location was interesting. The fact that you really didn't need to be a Sith, use the dark side, or even use them together to make them work.Lackluster job of keeping cannon straight. Palpy being all the Sith and Rey being all the Jedi? interesting concept. But If Rey is all the Jedi then the Jedi won't go away, So waht was the point of the title of TLJ?.
Once again these are my observations and opinions as to why I didn't like these movies. You'll also note that preceded all of these with what I thought were good ideas. This was something that an old critic teacher of mine taught me. If you can take your favorite song, movie, tv show, book, whatever. Tear it to shreds and make it seem like the worst piece of crap out there, expose all the flaws and you along with the people you exposed the flaws to still like it .Then it's good.
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Post by Tuskin » Fri May 01, 2020 2:55 am

Did anyone here actually say TROS is good?
I did after I saw it in December, but over the last few months, and especially after I saw it the second time last week, I hate it now.

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