Thoughts on joystick mappings?

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Thoughts on joystick mappings?

Voyager
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Post by Voyager » Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:10 pm

So now that I think I've gotten the core functions working in XWAUP, the next step is to get everything mapped to the joystick, so I can fly HOTAS in VR.

I'm wondering how other people generally map their controls? Which controls do people find critical vs merely nice to have? Do people use voice controls for any of the wingman commands? I found VAIRIO very handy in DCS, but the wingman commands are not nearly as nuts as they are in that game. Still, could be handy to free up key presses, and potentially more intuitive.

What sort of things do you use?

Thank you,

Harry Voyager

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Ace Antilles
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Post by Ace Antilles » Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:22 pm

I just assign the buttons to the most useful commands.
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Det. Bullock
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Post by Det. Bullock » Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:57 am

XwingAlliance_01.JPG
XwingAlliance_02.JPG

Looking at it now using all three layers seems excessive and I should probably reduce it to two like I did with XvT and TF for the next time I play through the campaign.
Here the first "shift" on the throttle is the actual shift key on the keyboard which is why most of the other two layers remain unused (only the button 1 and 2 are actually mapped in-game which is why they are only marked with their default designation), the other "shift" on the pushable analog ministick on the throttle is for changing the layers while I use the horizontal axis of said ministick for roll.
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Post by Forceflow » Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:49 am

Voyager wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:10 pm
So now that I think I've gotten the core functions working in XWAUP, the next step is to get everything mapped to the joystick, so I can fly HOTAS in VR.

I'm wondering how other people generally map their controls? Which controls do people find critical vs merely nice to have? Do people use voice controls for any of the wingman commands? I found VAIRIO very handy in DCS, but the wingman commands are not nearly as nuts as they are in that game. Still, could be handy to free up key presses, and potentially more intuitive.

What sort of things do you use?

Thank you,

Harry Voyager
This highly depends on which HOTAS you are using. How many hat switches do you have, how many buttons can you easily reach in VR? From there on you can see what can be done.
I have an x52 Pro which has plenty of buttons that can be accessed easily. For me there are some crucial ones that I use all the time:
Target nearest enemy fighter (R)
Target craft in crosshair (Alt-3)
Switch weapons (W)
Cycle Firing Settings (X)
The next important batch is targeting. Here I have the following:
Target next enemy (F3) and previous Enemy (SHIFT-F3)
Target next warhead (I)
Target craft attacking my target (I)
Target next craft (T) and previous craft (Y)
Target next component (,)
Target newest craft (U)
Then I have some additional keys on the throttle:
Adjust Shield Settings (S)
Set turret to fire at current target (F)
Dock and Pick up (SHIFT-D and SHIFT-P)
SPACE (for jumping, entering hangar and confirming other selections)
Target next nav-buoy (N)
Countermeasures
Lastly I have three toggle switches that I unfortunately have to take my hand off the throttle to use. They are big and well placed though, so I can use them without looking. They are three in a row that toggle up and down:
Left:
Up: Adjust weapon charging (F9) Down: Transfer energy from shields to weapons (SHIFT-F10)
Middle:
Up: Adjust shield charging Down: Transfer energy from lasers to shields (SHIFT-F9)
Right:
Up: Preset #1 (F11) Down: Preset #2 (F12)

I find that with this I can handle pretty much everything. Though I do not use VR, so I do feel comfortable to use the keyboard for those outliers. For pure VR I think it would make sense to have one button be SHIFT so that you can free up all buttons that require a SHIFT+button key. You wont gain much, but depending on your setup it could be enough to make everything you need accessible. I don't use voice command, but I would say if you do want to go full VR you'll have to use that for the wingmen commands. While I rarely use them not being to use them at all would be a problem I think.
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theonegalen
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Post by theonegalen » Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:17 pm

My last config used the hat for targeting functions: nearest enemy, next / previous target, mission critical craft, nearest target attacking me. I usually have a virtual "mod" key that I can hold on my throttle to save and retrieve targets to/from memory. Weapon select and configuration on the joystick thumb buttons, ELS controls on the throttle thumb buttons, as well as match speed with target, shield fwd/back. A secondary trigger on the stick worked as a mod key that then caused the throttle buttons to send comms message when held.

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Post by Det. Bullock » Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:06 am

So, I've revised my mapping to do away with the three layers for a simpler shifted function because insomnia.
The mapping are written as "main function/shifted function".
Only button 1 (trigger) and 2 (thumbrest) are mapped in-game, the rest are mapped as keyboard commands so it's possible to use the pinky button on the throttle for button combination since it's mapped to the Shift and ALT keys, the ring finger button beside it activates a secondary function if present and allows while pressed to alternate between shift and alt on the pinky button (thus a few keys are technically repeated in shift function to allow use of both ALT and Shift for button combinations), the vertical axis of the ministick is to select the MFDs while the PoV hat can either be used to navigate them or as a PoV to look around the cockpit. In general I have assigned shifted functions to what I deemed either lower priority or just functions used in less frantic situations.
Of course it's still a work in progress but it can give you a better idea of what can be done.
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JaggedFel
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Post by JaggedFel » Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:52 am

Using my x52's, the Missile Fire button was setup as a macro to switch to warheads, "dumb" fire then return to lasers (I used Mode to determine what type of weapons were in the craft; L+W, L+I+W, L+W+W). This helped especially in XWA with capital ships and their ability to shoot down warheads.
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Post by Det. Bullock » Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:46 pm

JaggedFel wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:52 am
Using my x52's, the Missile Fire button was setup as a macro to switch to warheads, "dumb" fire then return to lasers (I used Mode to determine what type of weapons were in the craft; L+W, L+I+W, L+W+W). This helped especially in XWA with capital ships and their ability to shoot down warheads.
Doesn't that have issues?
IIRC missiles aren't considered really "dumbfired" unless the target you are aiming at is not on the CMD, I remember always either clearing the CMD or selecting a target not in sight to dumbfire.

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Post by JaggedFel » Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:24 am

Det. Bullock wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:46 pm
Doesn't that have issues?
IIRC missiles aren't considered really "dumbfired" unless the target you are aiming at is not on the CMD, I remember always either clearing the CMD or selecting a target not in sight to dumbfire.
In XWA, yes. I think you can get away with it in TIE/XvT. My target selection commands were on the stick's center hat so it was easy enough to flip Next Target, Fire Warheads and flip back to Previous Target in more or less a single motion.
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Post by Det. Bullock » Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:55 am

JaggedFel wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:24 am
Det. Bullock wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:46 pm
Doesn't that have issues?
IIRC missiles aren't considered really "dumbfired" unless the target you are aiming at is not on the CMD, I remember always either clearing the CMD or selecting a target not in sight to dumbfire.
In XWA, yes. I think you can get away with it in TIE/XvT. My target selection commands were on the stick's center hat so it was easy enough to flip Next Target, Fire Warheads and flip back to Previous Target in more or less a single motion.
I don't think it's necessary in XvT as long as you fire from outside turbo laser range (just so lasers directed at you don't impact on the warheads), but IIRC missiles can occasionally be a problem because some ships occasionally use them to intercept locked warheads.

I never used scripts for these things however, besides there's the issue with your script that the next target might be in sight and occasionally warheads will try to follow whatever is targeted rather than fly in a straight line even if they aren't locked.

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Post by JaggedFel » Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:14 am

Det. Bullock wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:55 am
there's the issue with your script that the next target might be in sight and occasionally warheads will try to follow whatever is targeted rather than fly in a straight line even if they aren't locked.
Target selection wasn't in the script, that was manual so I could prevent situations like that. Macro only handled the weapons.
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Post by Det. Bullock » Mon Aug 03, 2020 4:23 am

JaggedFel wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:14 am
Det. Bullock wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:55 am
there's the issue with your script that the next target might be in sight and occasionally warheads will try to follow whatever is targeted rather than fly in a straight line even if they aren't locked.
Target selection wasn't in the script, that was manual so I could prevent situations like that. Macro only handled the weapons.
Ah, OK.
Tough I don't find such scripts necessary, I like switching weapons manually and usually only use simple macros for some button combinations that's difficult to do manually for a reason or another (like with keys in different layers that would otherwise conflict).
I did use a script to map functions to the throttle ministick in XvT (simple mapping is with no deadzone so I used scripting to add one so I don't activate anything by mistake, that thing is sensitive) and for a pseudo-throttle in early Wing Commander games though.
I should probably do the ministick script for XWA too, when I use the rudder sometimes I accidentally activate the functions on the vertical axis which can be annoying.

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Post by theonegalen » Thu Aug 06, 2020 1:49 am

Waiting on a X56 throttle now. I'll probably use it alongside my old Logitech Attack 3 until I can upgrade to a VKB Space Combat grip. Going to try to use vjoy and joystick gremlin to get them to work together.

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Post by danyetman » Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:03 pm

I'd be interested in a download of the XWA Joystick config for the x52 - I just got one, and I'm a little overwhelmed.

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Post by Forceflow » Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:21 am

danyetman wrote:
Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:03 pm
I'd be interested in a download of the XWA Joystick config for the x52 - I just got one, and I'm a little overwhelmed.
I can post mine tomorrow, ping me if I forget. (Unfortunately not on my PC today)
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Post by danyetman » Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:17 am

Forceflow wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:21 am
danyetman wrote:
Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:03 pm
I'd be interested in a download of the XWA Joystick config for the x52 - I just got one, and I'm a little overwhelmed.
I can post mine tomorrow, ping me if I forget. (Unfortunately not on my PC today)
I actually figured out that the best option is to setup the x52 in its own software and to delete the JoystickConfig file to prevent any overrides from happening.

I have noticed that there are many commands that are not called out in the Joystick.txt file, such as NumPad-5 to center the cockpit view, amongst others. It'd be nice to be able to add Keypresses that aren't explicitly called out. It took about two hours to set my x52 up in a way that I liked (though some of that was figuring out how the software did keypresses and macros). Still, I wouldn't mind seeing a JoystickConfig file.

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Post by Forceflow » Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:19 pm

Ah, I meant the x52 profile myself, did not use the joystick config since that wasn't available when I originally set up my x52. Plus you can add lot more functions when you use the x52's software
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Post by danyetman » Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:28 am

Yeah, I thought that the XWA joystick mapping utility was going to be the way to go...until I realized how comparatively limited it was against the native Logitech app. Lesson learned.

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Post by danyetman » Sun Aug 15, 2021 9:52 pm

Forceflow wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:19 pm
Ah, I meant the x52 profile myself, did not use the joystick config since that wasn't available when I originally set up my x52. Plus you can add lot more functions when you use the x52's software
Any chance you can upload that profile? I lost mine due to having to transition completely to a new computer, and the backup was two days older than the profile I made.

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Post by Forceflow » Mon Aug 16, 2021 1:01 pm

danyetman wrote:
Sun Aug 15, 2021 9:52 pm
Forceflow wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:19 pm
Ah, I meant the x52 profile myself, did not use the joystick config since that wasn't available when I originally set up my x52. Plus you can add lot more functions when you use the x52's software
Any chance you can upload that profile? I lost mine due to having to transition completely to a new computer, and the backup was two days older than the profile I made.
sure thing, here it is:
X-Wing_Alliance_x52-Profile.zip
Be sure though that you disable the clutch mode in the MFD properties of the joystick. Otherwise my profile wont work (as I use the pinkie button for selecting closest enemy and the thumb button on the throttle as my 'shift' button for the secondary controls.
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Post by danyetman » Sat Aug 21, 2021 11:54 am

...Seems to be an empty profile?

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Post by Forceflow » Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:11 pm

danyetman wrote:
Sat Aug 21, 2021 11:54 am
...Seems to be an empty profile?
sorry I missed your replay. What do you mean an empty profile? That's the one I am using currently.

I downloaded the file just to make sure and it does look complete:

Code: Select all

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Murphy was an optimist! I am a pessimist!
And always remember that a smile is cheaper than a bullet! (District 9)
Webmaster of the X-Wing Alliance Upgrade Project

DraegDrwg
Recruit
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu May 06, 2021 8:48 pm

Post by DraegDrwg » Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:10 am

Sometimes I think it'd be useful to have some of the Squadrons style button mapping in XWA. Things like tapping the next target button twice to target the ship attacking you, or the shield button being single tap for shields back, double tap for shields forward and hold to equalise. It's nice to be able to access a lot of this stuff without reaching for the keyboard. I wonder if joystick gremlin macros could do it..

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