Bug Reports

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Re: Bug Reports

Snoopy2021
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Post by Snoopy2021 » Mon Nov 07, 2022 7:39 am

Thank you very much!

I tried the files but unfortunately it made things worse: Now, during missions, the mouse is not working anymore. The games still crashes when aborting a mission.

Out of curiosity, I also tried the old package "EffectsByBlueMax_beta_v2021-12-29" which contains an own version of ddraw.dll. This version also causes the mouse to NOT work. During missions, the whole space is just white with HUD-text on top.

However, when I hit "q" to abort the mission, the game is succesfully switching to debriefing!

The game still crashes, after quitting the whole game (Once again it's error Code 0xc0000005).

I played around with the two settings

IsHookD3DEnabled = 0 (in hooks.ini)

and

D3dRendererHookEnabled = 1 (in Ddraw.cfg)

but without success.

I also tried several ddraw.dll-backup-versions from my game-folder. The versions not crashing the game (on mission-quit) are:

- the one from BlueMax-Beta 2021/12/29, size: 1,10 MB.
- the oldest version I found (from TFTC 1.2?), dated 2021/11/16, size 1,09 MB

Unfortunatley the game is unplayable with a white screen. I'm getting this problem with both working versions now.

The mouse never came back to live during missions. Maybe some settings for joystick-emulation got overwritten?

However, game-crash is defintely a problem with ddraw.dll!

When I use one of the two "working" ddraw.dll-versions and disable hardware-graphics in the video-menu (during mission in the game), the game crashes on mission-resume.

I also got a lot of .dmp-files in my XWAU-folder. Each of them is about 130 MB in size. I bet these are memory-dumps from the crashes. Are they somehow of interest for researching the problem?

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m0rgg
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Post by m0rgg » Mon Nov 07, 2022 8:13 am

The white screen is most probably related to Hook D3d being disabled.
To have the latest code using GPU for geometry calculations you need the values that you posted.
If you switch them both, you will have the old behaviour but I don't think it is much tested lately so probably not recommended.

The missing mouse control may be indeed a result of config overwrite. Check ddraw.cfg for Joystick_emu=1 or something similar.

The dumps can indeed be useful for troubleshooting, but I would recommend to focus on the latest versions of ddraw.dll and tgsmush.dll instead of changing too many variables.

In fact I recommend to try a clean install of TFTC 1.3.2 + the latest tgsmush.dll and the latest ddraw.dll beta from the Downloads page. Run the game until it crashes and upload the crash dump somewhere so that we can have a look.

You can then replace the ddraw.dll with the Golden ddraw linked by Jeremy above (only the DLL), and provide another crash dump.

Snoopy2021
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Post by Snoopy2021 » Mon Nov 07, 2022 10:06 am

m0rgg wrote:
Mon Nov 07, 2022 8:13 am
The white screen is most probably related to Hook D3d being disabled.
To have the latest code using GPU for geometry calculations you need the values that you posted.
...uhm...in the settings, I posted above, Hooks.ini is reading:

Code: Select all

IsHookD3DEnabled = 0
...that's the settings recommended in the file "READ THIS FIRST.txt". It also says:

Code: Select all

D3dRendererHookEnabled = 1
...in ddraw.cfg.
I applied both settings in conjunction with the old ddraw.dll and get the white-screen.
m0rgg wrote:
Mon Nov 07, 2022 8:13 am
The missing mouse control may be indeed a result of config overwrite. Check ddraw.cfg for Joystick_emu=1 or something similar.
...no there is nothing. I searched for "mouse", "joystick" and "emu" in both files (Hooks.ini and ddraw.cfg). The option must be saved somewhere else.
m0rgg wrote:
Mon Nov 07, 2022 8:13 am
The dumps can indeed be useful for troubleshooting, but I would recommend to focus on the latest versions of ddraw.dll and tgsmush.dll instead of changing too many variables.

In fact I recommend to try a clean install of TFTC 1.3.2 + the latest tgsmush.dll and the latest ddraw.dll beta from the Downloads page. Run the game until it crashes and upload the crash dump somewhere so that we can have a look.
...sure you do...
m0rgg wrote:
Mon Nov 07, 2022 8:13 am
You can then replace the ddraw.dll with the Golden ddraw linked by Jeremy above (only the DLL), and provide another crash dump.
I will repeat myself: The problem exists since TFTC 1.2 with the beta-patch for hardware-graphics. With the newest version the problem is unchanged. Only old versions of ddraw.dll don't cause a crash. Conclusion: There is a bug in ddraw.dll with hardware-acceleration. I assume TFTC has other changes built-in so that a rollback isn't possible, causing a white-screen. Propably some other parts of TFTC 1.3.2 now rely on a ddraw.dll-version with hardware-acceleration.

I will try to swap both config-entries for 3D. The latest dump-file is here

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AngeI
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Post by AngeI » Mon Nov 07, 2022 10:24 am

@Snoopy2021 I suspect you using Windows 7 is part of the problem here. As of v1.3, we officially recommended you use at least Windows 10 for TFTC to be stable. Whilst Windows 7 and 8 CAN work (and there was a recent update to help with this ping @blue_max), it's much more likely to produce problems and we generally do not support these older OS anymore.

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Post by Snoopy2021 » Mon Nov 07, 2022 11:07 am

Well that's a pity. As a linux-user, I actually don't support windows at all.
Just for this game, I upgraded from XP to Win7, which I barely use and for some games only. I was really upset when someone from tftc-community told me XP was not supported anymore. Changing to Windows-10-only makes you a microsoft-reseller. And no, it's never necessary!

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AngeI
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Post by AngeI » Mon Nov 07, 2022 12:09 pm

Snoopy2021 wrote:
Mon Nov 07, 2022 11:07 am
Well that's a pity. As a linux-user, I actually don't support windows at all.
Just for this game, I upgraded from XP to Win7, which I barely use and for some games only. I was really upset when someone from tftc-community told me XP was not supported anymore. Changing to Windows-10-only makes you a microsoft-reseller. And no, it's never necessary!
I'm sorry you feel that way, but XWAU/TFTC continually tries to improve the engine and recent updates take try to take advantage of modern advancements which unfortunately mean they tend to work best on modern, supported OS. We have a community member in our Discord who had been making a TFTC installer for Lutris under Linux but unfortunately the new GPU ddraw doesn't work with it and despite his best efforts, Lutris developers are unwilling to change things to help support it properly. It should still work under Lutris using the pre-GPU ddraw.

Ultimately we are just fans doing this all in our spare time as hobby for free, we simply cannot dedicate time to making this compatible on all OS for a small handful of users who prefer using older or different OS than what is currently mainstream.

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m0rgg
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Post by m0rgg » Mon Nov 07, 2022 12:59 pm

Snoopy2021 wrote:
Mon Nov 07, 2022 11:07 am
Well that's a pity. As a linux-user, I actually don't support windows at all.
Just for this game, I upgraded from XP to Win7, which I barely use and for some games only. I was really upset when someone from tftc-community told me XP was not supported anymore. Changing to Windows-10-only makes you a microsoft-reseller. And no, it's never necessary!
Please keep in mind both projects are done on a voluntary basis. Many people dedicate a lot of their free time to create this for people like you to enjoy.

Yes, there are surely ways to make things work in a wider range of devices/operating systems, but sometimes the effort to support them is not justified or just not available from the people involved, which is quite limited.

If you are unhappy with this, you are free to enjoy the vanilla versions of Tie Fighter and XWA, or to start collaborating to improve the compatibility. The code for ddraw and all the other hooks is open source.

In fact there is now a need to have testers and people capable of debugging and fixing issues for the latest versions of the mods to work with Wine in Linux.

And please, try to refrain from accusing anyone of being "resellers" of anything. It won't be well received by people that has put countless hours on getting where we are now.

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Post by Snoopy2021 » Mon Nov 07, 2022 1:22 pm

AngeI wrote:
Mon Nov 07, 2022 12:09 pm
Ultimately we are just fans doing this all in our spare time as hobby for free, we simply cannot dedicate time to making this compatible on all OS for a small handful of users who prefer using older or different OS than what is currently mainstream.
Yes, I'm glad about this and yes, this is very noble. I really would like to enjoy it but you make it difficult: Skipping three windows-versions is not addressing mainstream. It's addressing microsoft-enthusiasts, always buying the newest version of their favorite OS. :D It's one thing to support that. It's another story locking out all current players of your wonderful game, making accelerated graphics not optional in setup. You broke the game! Every user of win7 win8 and win8.1 won't be able to play tftc after upgrade! :kopfwand:
So when you spend so much energy and free time for this awesome game: Please don't break it!

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Post by DarHan » Mon Nov 07, 2022 1:40 pm

I’m just going to point out that Windows 7 is contemporary with Ubuntu 9.10, Windows 8.1 with Ubuntu 13.10, and Windows 10 with Ubuntu 15.04. Now, consider that every single one of these versions of Ubuntu has reached EOL more than half a decade ago.

Windows 10 is seven years old by now. It’s not “the newest version of their favorite OS” by far. If you still use Win7 (reached EOL in 2020 after 11 years on the market) or Win8.1 (will reach EOL in January 2023 after 10 years on the market), I don’t think you can exactly count as “mainstream”.
“Red Four, nothing’s gone wrong yet.”
— Hobbie Klivian

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AngeI
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Post by AngeI » Mon Nov 07, 2022 1:42 pm

Snoopy2021 wrote:
Mon Nov 07, 2022 1:22 pm
Yes, I'm glad about this and yes, this is very noble. I really would like to enjoy it but you make it difficult: Skipping three windows-versions is not addressing mainstream. It's addressing microsoft-enthusiasts, always buying the newest version of their favorite OS. :D It's one thing to support that. It's another story locking out all current players of your wonderful game, making accelerated graphics not optional in setup. You broke the game! Every user of win7 win8 and win8.1 won't be able to play tftc after upgrade! :kopfwand:
So when you spend so much energy and free time for this awesome game: Please don't break it!
I have stated our position on the matter, this will not change in the current foreseeable future. The mod is not broken, it is quite playable on the platform we all work and support on. It is simply not properly supported on older/different OS and this is unlikely to change unless other people with the technical knowhow, wizardry and free time on their hands can do such tasks. If you are capable or know people that are, please direct them to us. Until then, this is the way things are :)

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Post by Forceflow » Mon Nov 07, 2022 1:49 pm

You do realize that we don't go out of our way to break compatibility, right? All those new features and abilities that we offer rely on technology that unfortunately in turn relies on functionality that requires newer windows versions. All those things are often intertwined with each other so that we simply cannot easily offer the ability to disable certain settings.
If you feel like there are ways to achieve all that we have done with retaining compatability with older windows versions or even Linux or macOS we certainly welcome your expertise in helping programming those. We are always.looking for skilled developers who are eager to spent their time helping out.
The simple fact is that the vast majority of users (especially in the gaming sector) are using windows 10 and above. So we will first try to make the game run for those, if we find ways to also add compatibility to lower version we will incorporate them as well, but you have to realize that every time we do that it takes away the precious little time the guys already have. This will delay further enhancements and new features, so everybody else will.have to wait as well. And since the upgrade to Windows 10 was free for pretty much everyone who wanted it I find it strange to be called a Microsoft-reseller...
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Snoopy2021
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Post by Snoopy2021 » Mon Nov 07, 2022 2:13 pm

Forceflow wrote:
Mon Nov 07, 2022 1:49 pm
All those new features and abilities that we offer rely on technology that unfortunately in turn relies on functionality that requires newer windows versions. All those things are often intertwined with each other so that we simply cannot easily offer the ability to disable certain settings.
Sorry, I know that's crap! Since Vista there were no major improvements in windows. There is nothing possible that wasn't possible before. BTW, XWA originally was for Win98 and even with your improvements it doesn't need newest hardware (which is a good thing). Incompatibility is purely virtual and made by microsoft. You just don't want to use the old developer-tools.
TFTC without accelerated graphics is running perfectly fine with beautiful graphics, even on older machines. I'm glad you can't make use of multicore and are limited by the old game-engine. Please fix this bug!

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Post by AngeI » Mon Nov 07, 2022 2:25 pm

@Snoopy2021 I will warn you now, please mind your disrespectful tone. It is not necessary and we have tried to be polite and engage with you. We have explained our position and we have offered you a solution in helping our project out in the long term (help from people with the know how to help). You are in a niche category here with your particular desires for the project in this instance and you must realise that and we do not owe you anything. You may be glad that we can't use modern technology fully - and frankly I don't understand why you would want to restrict us from taking advantage of modern tools to satisfy a need to stay retro - but the vast majority of our playerbase is very happy and continues to provide excellent support and feedback.

If you are this unhappy I simply suggest you leave now and find another project you do enjoy instead of getting upset with this one, life is too short for that. If you want to stay but are unwilling to engage with us constructively on the subject you may be removed from the forums.

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Post by Snoopy2021 » Mon Nov 07, 2022 2:40 pm

I ensure you I am as constructive as I can: Not everybody is willing to spend time giving reasonable feedback. I wouldn't do that if I wasn't a real fan of your game. There are plenty of other issues in the game I could bring up, but breaking compatibility for users of four different operating systems (Linux included) is by far the worst you can do. There is no need not including an option for this new shiny hardware-feature, as you did with all other features, before. Maybe you should see it this way: I'm the voice of a larger group not telling you that they won't update their OS to ensure compatibility with your game. As a sidenote: Software-lifetime of 20 years (of usage) is normal, even when developers didn't intend it.

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Post by m0rgg » Mon Nov 07, 2022 3:14 pm

Snoopy2021 wrote:
Mon Nov 07, 2022 2:13 pm
I'm glad you can't make use of multicore and are limited by the old game-engine. Please fix this bug!
It is sad you are happy that others are prevented from enjoying the game in a much better shape just because you cannot/do not want to do the same.
You just don't want to use the old developer-tools.
TFTC without accelerated graphics is running perfectly fine with beautiful graphics, even on older machines.
That is correct, we want to use the tools that make the development more convenient for us. Because as we have tried to explain supporting deprecated versions of OS or other software does not justify the time investment. If you have specific advice for changes in the code that will make it perfectly backwards compatible, feel free to send a Pull Request.

You are automatically assuming that the root cause of your problems comes from having Win7, when it was just a suggestion from Angel. It is indeed a possibility, but with your attitude you have probably erased any desire of helping that the team might have. You are being spectacularly ungrateful.

As I said, you are free to enjoy the vanilla Tie Fighter and XWA.

Or you can use the Golden ddraw, created by Jeremy from XWAU team and thanks to which you can run XWA in Win7 without having to install DosBox or Win98 with old, unsupported drivers.

Also, there is always the option to disable the D3dRenderer and re-enable the D3d hook with the options we discussed above.
Or you can use the legacy Effects ddraw available in the Downloads page.

Do not dare to accuse the team of breaking anything. You just need to read and learn how to do it.

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Post by Snoopy2021 » Mon Nov 07, 2022 3:58 pm

Not sure, what you mean with golden ddraw but I will try inverting the two config-file-options, as soon as I reboot to windows. Which one is the legacy-effects? I tried two versions of "EffectsByBlueMax".
m0rgg wrote:
Mon Nov 07, 2022 3:14 pm
Do not dare to accuse the team of breaking anything. You just need to read and learn how to do it.
Friend, the game did run before, after update it doesn't anymore and you guys tell me this was intended, desired and will never change again. This is for sure not an achievement. Games for newest windows only, disney can publish themselve. Nobody needs an opensource-fan-project for this.

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Post by Snoopy2021 » Mon Nov 07, 2022 5:57 pm

Just tried tftc 1.3.2 with reversed settings:

Code: Select all

D3dRendererHookEnabled = 0
...in ddraw.cfg and

Code: Select all

IsHookD3DEnabled = 1
...in Hooks.ini but it didn't help. With oldest ddraw.dll from Nov. 2021, I still get a white screen. With newest beta, I get ingame-graphics but crash on debriefing. When I try ddraw.dll from Bluemex-Pack (Dez 29th 2021), the game crashes on launch.

So, unlike with tftc 1.2 I can't run the game anymore, no matter of config or ddraw.dll-version. I assume there are other changes in the game, relying in the new graphics-driver, causing the problem. What's bugging me most is that hardware-accelerated graphics actually is working fine. There is just this crash after changing back to normal graphics. You can tell me what you want - this bug is fixable.

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Post by Forceflow » Mon Nov 07, 2022 6:07 pm

Snoopy2021 wrote:
Mon Nov 07, 2022 5:57 pm
You can tell me what you want - this bug is fixable.
Then do a pull request on the code, find the problem and fix it. I mean if it's apparently that straight forward it shouldn't be an issue for you to do it, should it? We would love for more people to help and make the code better and more compatible, so please do and we'll be more than happy to include those fixes into our releases.
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Post by Snoopy2021 » Mon Nov 07, 2022 6:17 pm

Could you please stop giving me orders? If I would have listened to you, I would have reinstalled XWA, XWAU, TFTC, bought newest windows and spend 1-2 days for all the installation. How about YOU LOOK FOR THE BUG IN THE CODE? Why do you open a bug-reports-thread when you don't care at all?

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Post by AngeI » Mon Nov 07, 2022 7:17 pm

Snoopy2021 wrote:
Mon Nov 07, 2022 6:17 pm
Could you please stop giving me orders? If I would have listened to you, I would have reinstalled XWA, XWAU, TFTC, bought newest windows and spend 1-2 days for all the installation. How about YOU LOOK FOR THE BUG IN THE CODE? Why do you open a bug-reports-thread when you don't care at all?
We are giving you suggestions, not orders. If anything you are the one who is coming here and demanding we fix things to your exact standards. For TFTC, 99% of our bug reports, discussions of issues, interactions with the community and how to fix them are done on our Discord server, not here.

Again we work on this with our free time as we can, only two people here are capable of even looking at/fixing that kind of code and they have their hands full with other projects and real life. If they can find something they will and I'm sure its been noted by them at this point. But don't expect it to be fixed any time soon if at all considering - as we have already stated - we are not really supporting older OS anymore. It is ultimately up to those two coding engineers if they fix it or not or are prepared to invest the time and effort to fix this. Please accept this fact and move on. We owe you nothing, we have encouraged you to help us, not berate us.

If you feel this locks out a significant player base, that is your prerogative, but frankly you are perhaps the first and only person (that I've seen) to come here and really complain about this issue, to such a specific degree and with this unpleasant, antagonistic attitude and I wish you could see that. This is ultimately a community driven project, that means we rely on the community to develop tools, make models, write missions, understand code and contribute to the greater whole.

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Post by theonegalen » Tue Nov 08, 2022 12:20 am

I just want to say that I'm amazed how patient and helpful Angel and Forceflow are being here. I appreciate y'all.

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Post by Snoopy2021 » Tue Nov 08, 2022 12:28 am

I'm glad you enjoy each other. Have a nice day.

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Post by Guyofthe80s » Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:23 pm

Would this be a bad time to mention I'm having a hell of a framerate issue on my Apple IIe?

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Post by theonegalen » Sat Nov 12, 2022 1:57 am

Guyofthe80s wrote:
Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:23 pm
Would this be a bad time to mention I'm having a hell of a framerate issue on my Apple IIe?
:lachtot:

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Post by CrimsonEminence » Sat Dec 03, 2022 8:51 pm

Guyofthe80s wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:03 pm
I'm seeing an odd glitch that seems exclusive to Z-95 Headhunters. I thought it was only in a single mission, but as I progress through the game, I'm noticing whenever a wave of Z-95s enter the fray, they will never break from their initial trajectory at the speed they entered in. Last mission I played, there was a flight of Z-95s 60 KM away from the action with AI friendlies chasing them. It's not a HUGE issue, but definitely messes with the balance since a whole flightgroup of enemies isn't around to help their buddies at best and at worst, it draws away FRIENDLY AI ships that chase them leaving the player fighting the rest of the enemy AI fighters without any assistance.
Hello XWAUP and TFTC community, devlopers and enjoyers! First i want to express my gratitude for this amazing piece of effort, rewriting and gameplay, thank you a lot for the long term dedication to such behemoths of projects!

I apologize for quoting a quite old post and if that issue has already been identified and explored but i didn't find any "official" fix and thought i register here to share some observations after testing and isolating a bit.

I encountered the issue quoted above in my runs in TFTC (Mugaari Z95 being a requirement to be shot down but flying away from the scene) and XWAUP (Z95 wingman in the ion pulse TIE experimental mission flying away from me and not responding to any wingman orders) - i have reliably reproduced it and i can also reliably avoid it with some steps. I can dig out the exact Battle/Mission names later if you need, not able to right now sorry - but it actually doesn't really matter if you play campaign or simulator AI skirmish/melee.

(for a TL:DR scroll down to Steps to reproduce please) :ops:

The reported issue:
You will notice the Z95 AI to always halfheartedly engage the opponent and then turning back to formation and driving away in a straight line from the battlefield, even if you run them as top ace AI while their current action in Display even shows, that they would engage an enemy ship.

I reproduced the issue reliably last night because i wanted to get this one out of my system due to the problem appearing for quite some time for me and affecting actual relevant mission pieces - i've not pinned down the culprit to 100% but i may have a big hint what it could be because of the experiments i did.

Steps to reproduce here reliably (both XWAUP and TFTC):

1. Do a fresh install of XWA + XWAUP (not necessary to install TFTC + TFTC patch and converting but do so if you want to get the issue in TIE fighter total conversion)

2. Run the Babu Frik configurator and configure all options inclusively starship models
-> it doesn't matter if you choose default models from the game, the AI issue will occur.

-> to test, run a simulator mission with Z95 opponents on higher AI skill and observe their behaviour.

-> The issue does NOT occur when i just change TrackIR, resolution/aspect ratio, soundtrack or graphical effects settings like AA in Babu Friks Configurator after a FRESH installation, Z95 Headhunter AI is attacking constantly and jinks attacks by other craft reliably and re-engages to fight.

-> change other things like starfighter or starship model options in the configurator and the AI issue will start as described here. I haven't managed to pin down the exact option that triggers it unfortunately because i ran out of time.

It has to be said, i play craft pack mods for XWA for quite a substantial while (several years) and i kind of remember similar issues with AI and distancing from the battlefield before. It's just so long ago when i encountered it last time that i can't deliver any details anymore if it was DSUCP or earlier iterations of the XWAUP for example.

I'm sorry for the wall of text and sorry for tagging, but maybe @AngeI knows to what that could hint and it's maybe not even a biggie to fix after all.

Cheers and fly safe/good hunting!

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